Shalom Rabbi Davis,
I have been talking a while now with some Jewish people at a place for debating about different issues of faith ect…
This person said Yahshua could not have been the Messiah because Messiah had to be of the tribe of Judah. And Joseph was not his father and even if he was he had been disqualified so even if you tie Yahshua to Joseph it would not matter.
I told him that Mary was of the tribe of Judah and Levi so Yahshua was of both the King and Priest line.
And I quoted him from saying in earlier post that you are Jewish if your mother was Jewish .
Well then he said this to me below:
The halacha states that a son of a jewish mother is born jewish. The same halacha states that tribe and priestly rights are inherited thru the father line.
True, Jewish lineage today is passed through the mother, matrilineal line, but this is Halacha that evolved after the Second Temple in the Diaspora and was not halacha (Jewish Law) during or before Yahshua’s time. No one knows when for sure when Jews started deciding who is a Jew by matrilineal descent. Yes, tribal inheritance rights are traced through the father. The argument that Yahshua had priestly rights through Mariam is moot because He is not a High Priest in the Levitical cult, but a High Priest after Melchisdek. So it would not apply to Yahshua. Nor would your correspondent probably accept the argument not being knowledgeable of the NT nor accepting its authority.
Then he said this was a name used for Yahshua only it was in Hebrew text so I copied it and this is the way the word came out “hamamzer hamutzlav” do you know what this name might be?
This term, “Mamzer” means illegitimate. Most Jews do not know how to apply it and it has taken on the shape of a term of derision. Like calling a child a bas-ard. A mamzer is the offspring from unpermitted marital unions. One that is adulterous or incestuous but not one born out of wed lock between two unmarried persons. A child born out of wedlock is not considered illegitimate and bears no stigma at all in today’s halacha. There is a great deal more halacha involved to list here. The problem is that most Jews unless very knowledgeable do not know the laws of Mamzer. Most times, it is a term of derision.
The bottom line how do I address this comment about tribe and priestly rights are inherited by the father or how would you handle it?
It is true in Jewish Law so you cannot deny it. Nor would you advance the argument, “After the order of Melchisdek,” have much credence for most Jews. Unless you advance the incident where Abraham offered tithes to Melchisdek where it signified that Melchisdek who was the priest and king of Salem (Jerusalem) was greater than the Levitical priesthood because they were still in the lions of Abraham (Levi not born yet) and as such they too offered tithes, a Jewish principle. In addition, Milchisdek was both a King and High Priest. The problem is that most Jews’ minds are closed to an honest evaluation of Yahshua. Until the Jewish leaders began to open themselves up to honest dialogue concerning the person of Yahshua will the rank and file open up. Jews are taught not to read the NT and you can not argue from the perspective of the NT. Christianity to most Jews represents persecution and death. The cross is an emblem of destruction and this is true because Jews for centuries have been killed in the name of Christianity or Jews have been branded “Christ Killers” to justify all kinds of pogroms. This does not make Jews open to witnessing as most Christians practice it, appealing to the emotions. Jews cannot be approached emotionally on this matter. You see how this individual keeps throwing halacha at you and this requires you to know halacha. Most Jews do not know halacha. Unfortunately, most Christians are dismally prepared to debate a knowledgeable Jew on this matter. It would be better that Chritstians prayerfully and financially underwrite credible Jewish leaders in the field of Messianic Judaism to lead this fight then try it on their on.
I want you to know this forum is a forum for Jews and Christians to debate issues on their beliefs. If it was stickly for Jews I would not debate about this on it.
Rabbi Davis I love the Jewish people am I wrong for sharing the Gospel with them ?
No, you must follow the dictates of your heart, but you must also be prepared for rejection. Remember, some of the Jews in this forum are looking for answers outside their own experience, and others are there to defend the faith of their fathers. In fact, there are groups organized to debate with what is called “missionaries endeavors of Christians,” and they are recognizable by their abundant knowledge of Jewish law. A believer must remember many are called, both Jew and Gentile, but few are chosen. What you have to decide is are you equipped to advance your cause or ill prepared and in fact may be hurting it giving a platform from which the opposition is advancing theirs. I am an example of a Jew who believes, yet I did not receive it from some one who witnessed to me personally. Christians turned me off. Read my article on The “Wrong Way to Witness,” and draw your own conclusions. It was written from years of experience. Jews are not even open to other Jews witnessing because the leadership teaches that a Jew that embraces Yahshua is no longer a Jew but a Christian. In one fell swoop that transfers me from a “landsman” to a representative of Christian persecution. I treat proselytizing like one who is asked by a child about sex. Answer only the question and do not elaborate. I have a Holocaust victim of acquaintance that I have never “witnessed to,” and we both have avoided the subject of religion except in general terms because we value our friendship, and do not want to allow anything to harm it. However, lately he is now asking me questions about Messianic Judaism. I answer each and do not elaborate nor proselytize. Had I pushed my beliefs on him he would have resented it, and not only would a friendship be lost, but the opportunity to personally acquaint him with a Jewish Yahshua would have been lost. It has to be on his terms not mind. All this is controlled by the Ruach (Holy Spirit). I am just there when the opportunity arises if he begins the conversation. One, he sees that I am more Torah observant than most Jews not saddled with the epitaph of being a “Christian,” and this has sparked his interest. Other characteristics he sees are fruits of the Spirit not evident in many religious Jews. There has to be something that attracts a Jew’s interest and that is, not “bible bashing” with Christian dogma.
I feel it is planting seeds that G-d can make grow sometime even if I never know about it.
That is true and if you can accept rejection without becoming angry or frustrated just study and equip yourself more so you are more effective in the process.
I would love to hear your opinion on this so when you have time because I know you are very busy please
let me know what your thoughts are on this.