Did Yahshua (Jesus) lie in John 7:8. Question concerning specifically verse 8 (I am not yet going up to this feast).
You had discussed this earlier this year, but not in depth or I didn’t listen “in depth”. We were discussing this at work the other day and the consensus of opinion among most of the others was that the word “yet” simply meant, yes Yahshua was going but at a later date, so in effect he did tell the truth.
Going back to the original translation was the word yet there, and/or do we have the correct understanding of the word “yet” as not now with you but later?.
These verses have troubled me since I was a kid. Did Messiah lie, tell the truth or bend the truth?. Or things were mistranslated.
Dear Bev: Read the different translations below, then read my commentary.
John 7:2 Now the Jews’ feast of tabernacles was at hand.
John 7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
John 7:4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, show thyself to the world.
John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.
John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
John 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.
John 7:9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
John 7:10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. (KJV)
John 7:2 Now the Jewish festival of Booths was near.
John 7:3 So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing;
John 7:4 for no one who wants to be widely known acts in secret. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.”
John 7:5 (For not even his brothers believed in him.)
John 7:6 Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify against it that its works are evil.
John 7:8 Go to the festival yourselves. I am not going to this festival, for my time has not yet fully come.”
John 7:9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee.
John 7:10 But after his brothers had gone to the festival, then he also went, not publicly but as it were in secret. (NRSV)
John 7:2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was at hand.
John 7:3 His brothers therefore said to Him, “Depart from here, and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may behold Your works which You are doing.
John 7:4 “For no one does anything in secret, when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.”
John 7:5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him.
John 7:6 Jesus therefore said^ to them, “My time is not yet at hand, but your time is always opportune.
John 7:7 “The world cannot hate you; but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.
John 7:8 “Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.”
John 7:9 And having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.
John 7:10 But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret. (NASB)
John 7:2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near.
John 7:3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing.
John 7:4 “For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.”
John 7:5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him.
John 7:6 So Jesus said^ to them, “My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune.
John 7:7 “The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.
John 7:8 “Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.”
John 7:9 Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.
John 7:10 But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret.
John 7:8 “I am not going up to this festival (NEB)
There is a textual question related to verse 8. The preferred and most numerous renderings in the manuscripts is ouk, meaning “not,” and is the most accurate reading. The word oupa found only in a few manuscripts means “not yet,” but is considered by scholars to have been added later. Bruce Metzer, a highly respected Christian scholar in his commentary on New Testament Greek, said it was introduced by scribes who were uncomfortable with verse 10, which says, “He did go up,” therefore inferring Yahshua lied. Yet, Yahshua did not sin for He did not break the commandment most regard as relating to lying, which is reality relates to testimony under oath in a judicial proceeding. See below.
Modern translations have elected to translate the text as “not” since it is the prevalent rendering in the manuscripts. I alos believe that the latter is the better translation because of verse 10. He went up secretly not openly as His brothers had taunted Him to do if He were so convinced of His destiny and calling. This suggests to me that He mislead them into thinking He would not go, so as to go secretly. See the translations above for confirmation. Of course, if your discussion is with “King James only” individuals they will not accept any other translation.
Just for your information, the following is a glaring King James is in error on some counts.
Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternion of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
First Easter was not a “church” festival during the writing of Acts. The “church” was still Jewish and Easter did not become a festival until after Constantine 321 CE.
The Greek word translated Easter here is Pescal / Pesach. We all know that Pesach is Passover. The Greeks have a word for Passover that was used in the manuscripts here, Paschal. Why did they use Easter, a derivative of Ishtar, the moon goddess wife of Baal, the sun god?
Strong’s give the follwing: 3957. pascha, pas’-khah; of Chald. or. [comp. H6453]; the Passover (the meal, the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it):–Easter, Passover.
However even here we see they connect it to a Pagan holiday Easter, in keeping with their agenda.
The point I was trying to make using the example of Samuel who lied to Saul at YHVH’s behest and the above is that the commandment: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” is referring to testimony in a judicial proceeding,” where loss of life, freedom or property might be the result of false swearing. Not every untruth someone utters. Contrast that with a “white lie” to spare someone hurt feelings or embarrassment. Is that a greater mitzvah? The concept being that YHVH does not view a “lie” to save someone embarrassment and hurt the same as He views sworn testimony in a court that is a sin by definition. In both Samuel and Yahshua’s cases, the “lie” was designed to deceive, one, in Samuel’s case it saved his life. They do not fall in the category defined by the commandment. Samuel may have made an altar and made sacrifices, yet his true purpose was to anoint David, and Yahshua although denying He would attend, even if later, did go to the Festival immediately after his brothers departed. He and Samuel allowed their hearers to believe something else, both knowing that their true intent was hidden by a falsehood. Specifically, Samuel was there to anoint David and Yahshua intended all along to go the Feast of Tabernacles. He had to in order to fulfill His appointment with destiny. We can only guess why He did not accept His brother’s challenge.
Hope this helps: